How do you respond when car dealers say KBB and Edmunds are just guides?

I'm trying to negotiate a used car deal, and it seems every car dealer in my area prices their cars significantly higher than KBB or Edmunds. When I bring up them, they say those are just guides and don't mean anything. What am I supposed to say to that to get them closer to their values? I mean KBB and Edmunds aren't based on nothing. That's what most people base their negotiations on.|||KBB, Edmunds, and NADA guides do more to muddy up the waters than any other info source out there. Yes, they are guides, and that is all.





We have a saying in the car business - If you want that price, Call Mr. Kelly and see if he will sell it to you.





The problems with those guides is they do not reflect accurately the local markets, or adapt quickly to changing conditions. They give averages based on past sales, but those averages may change dramatically before the guides can update.





Example - Cash for Clunkers took a lot of cheap cars off the road. A car that used to be $2000 at auction is now upwards of $3000. Cheap cars are hard to get and dealers are paying a premium for them so they have something to sell. But KBB would never know that. Or when they do, it'll be about 3 months form now when things have adjusted agian.





Heres another example - Right now, in Lake Tahoe they are getting snow like crazy. If you have a used Subaru or 4wd truck, you can name your price. There will be a vast difference in the price of an Imprezza in Tahoe, as compared to one in Arizona. But looking at KBB you would never know it.





Use the guides as just that, guides. Do your own market research. Looka t autotrader or your local advertisements to see what the averages are on the car you are interested in.





Ultimately, the best deal is one where you and the seller agree on a price that is fair for both of you, and a transaction is conducted. Everything else is just practice.|||In that case why the dealer's prices are always higher than those guides? If someone comes to you and offers you $10000 based on KBB, you wouldn't say oh, these are just misleading guides, I'm selling you for $8000. You see the hypocrisy - they only muddy up the waters that flow against you?

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|||They ARE just guides. And they are both fairly inaccurate.





More accurate is "Black Book".





Base your negotiations on Black Book values. Ideally, you should pay half way in between wholesale %26amp; retail. But in any event, never more than black book retail.





No dealer uses kbb or Edmund's, Only the public does.





And often dealers pay more for cars than KBB or Edmund's say is private party value.





Bottom line is YOU set the sale price.





If its too high, make an offer. If your reasonable offer is refused, go elsewhere %26amp; rinse %26amp; repeat.





If you get turned down at multiple dealers, you arent being reasonable.





Dealers dont turn down profitable deals if they can help it.|||Edmunds and KBB ARE just guides. An automobiles value depends on so many factors. Mileage, condition, popularity of model, heck, even the time of the year can make a huge difference. E.G. buying a convertible sports car in summer vs. winter. Your best bet is to remember that everything is negotiable, and there are lots of cars out there. Don't fall in love with any one car. Good luck.|||Arguing with a used car salesman about his source for the Suggested retail price is just dumb. It doesn't matter where the price came from. The real value of a used car, or anything else for that matter, is what a buyer is willing to pay for it. If you don't think the price is fair, then just walk away. The salesman will either lower his asking price, or he won't. If he won't then go find another car to spend your money on.|||Tell them you want to use the same publication they use to price trade-ins then. That'll shut em up.





They use the Black Book which is based on auction prices and are the lowest values. What's good for the goose is good for the gander!